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Interviews: Kojin Ono
Translated & Interpreted by Jeremy Barlow © Soundwave's Oblivion
2024. Thanks to @LinkFrost_
for photographs from the TFG2024 interview pages
Interview from Transformers Generations 2024
Kojin Ono ■
Takara Tomy Transformers Development Team Hall of Fame 2010
Kojin Ono, who has been involved in toy development since the days of "Diaclone"
and "Microman," reflects on his 40 years of experience working with the
"Transformers" series. Let's take a look back at the 40 year history of
Transformers, along with Kojin Ono’s career. He has been pivotal in the
development of numerous Transformers, creating the cutting edge Masterpieces
and MPG’s.
- Did you always aspire to develop toys?
I studied industrial design at a technical college, so I wasn't specifically
focused on creating transforming toys or anything similar. When it was time
to look for a job, I knew I wanted to work in design. I had many options,
but by chance, a catalogue arrived at my school. It was a Takara (now Takara
Tomy) toy catalogue, where I saw Magnemo's Steel Jeeg. I thought, "Oh, you
can have a job like that." While my friends were looking for cutting-edge
design jobs, I wanted to work with toys and character products. I thought it
would be fun. So, a toy company it was… At that time, I actually considered
Bandai a good choice, so I went ahead and took their exam. However, that
year Bandai didn't have any openings in development. Since I was determined
to pursue a career in toy design, I ultimately chose Takara.
- So you began your career on a solid footing as a
developer for Takara.
At that time, the boys' toy department had two divisions: 2M, which focused
on original characters like "Microman" among others, and 3M. At 3M, there
was Okude (Nobuyuki), who worked on so-called mass media characters like "Diaclone"
and "Sanrio”. The two departments saw each other as rivals and didn't get
along very well (laughs). But around the time I joined, they were merged
into a single department. As a newcomer, I was able to get along well with
the seniors on both teams. Of course, over time, the two teams got to know
each other better, and I found myself in a position to bridge the gap
between them. Because of that situation, I had the opportunity to work on
both Microman and Diaclone. If I had joined the company a year earlier, I
might have had to choose between the two teams.
- What was your first assignment there?
When I first joined the company, they were in the process of developing
Robot Fortress X. My task was to create a silicone mould from the prototype
and replicate the mould with a plastic cast. I was also assigned to update
the Diaclone crew (Inchman), so I began visiting Studio Nue. Kawamori
(Shoji), who was still a student at the time, was also present at Studio Nue.
I often felt like an editor waiting for Kawamori-san's manuscripts. On the
Microman side, I was responsible for such products as the Armoured Suits and
the bendable Acro-Satan. It was a period when Microman was beginning to
explore a more hobby-oriented product approach.
- Please share your experience with the Diaclone
Car Robots, the origins of the Transformers.
For a long time, we had been immersed in the 1/60 scale world of Diaclone.
However, we decided it was time for a new direction and conceived the idea
of a car robot that transforms into an actual real world vehicle. Initially,
it was developed as a sci-fi vehicle, in keeping with the traditional
Diaclone worldview. But when considering how to appeal to children, I opted
for something more relatable and chose to use real cars. However, initially,
there was some hesitation, and we considered creating a Countach that would
still incorporate some sci-fi elements. I took over the development of this
item, which was later sold as the "Countach LP500S Super Tuning," and
eventually became Sunstreaker in Transformers. The wooden block model had
already been made, so the next step was to determine the best way forward
from there. So we endeavoured to make it as faithful to the real car as
possible. As a result, it proved to be quite popular in testing with
children. Moreover, the sales department strongly supported the concept of
creating a real car. The Countach was even released as a police car, a
classic choice for a functional vehicle.
- The diverse lineup of car robots was quite
appealing. By the way, how many of them did you anticipate children would
collect?
I hoped people would collect around 10 of them... well, at least about 3
(laughs). You can't buy them all, after all. With Diaclone, we didn't
release them all at once. We introduced one or two each month, like, "Next
up is this one!" The first time we released everything at once was with
Transformers. It's not just about collecting; it's about making a choice.
It's about "choosing your hero."
- I heard that the introduction of Transformers in
Japan was quite surprising.
At first, it was a surprise. I believe it was complicated for our seniors
who had developed Diaclone and Microman. Initially, we viewed it as a
strategy for overseas markets, but it's surprising success led us to
introduce it in Japan as well. Since it was a product with no additional
production costs, we could allocate more resources to marketing.
- At that time, it appears like marketing was one
of Takara's strengths.
During that period, Takara prioritised original characters that conveyed
narratives through catalogues and commercials, rather than focusing on mass
media characters featured on television programs. As it's an original
character, we craft a detailed setting and enhance the commercials with a
touch of drama to build a rich narrative world. I believe that this
expertise was also applied in "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers."
First came the toys, then the world-building, and finally the TV programme.
When Transformers was introduced, Takara established the Ginza office to
handle marketing, including advertising and packaging. Meanwhile, at our
headquarters in Aoto, Katsushika, Tokyo, we focused on product development.
- What were your impressions of Hasbro as a company
back then?
Back then, Hasbro was much smaller than it is now. My impression is that
they gained profitability through Transformers and acquired other companies.
When we first engaged with them, they didn't appear to be such a massive
corporation.
- Hasbro also excels in categories such as games.
There were some similarities with Takara, but Hasbro really began to expand
after merging with Kenner. They strengthened their presence in both boys'
toys and board games, and it seemed like they continued to grow
significantly following the success of Transformers.
- I heard that when Transformers first launched in
the late '80s, the company faced challenges due to fluctuations in the
Yen-Dollar exchange rate and increasing costs.
It was a period when we had to meticulously calculate costs. Development
teams aren't typically fond of that (laughs). Managing costs is an eternal
challenge. I still want to make rubber tyres for all of my Masterpieces, but
I've had to let that go….
- Especially around 2010, there were many items
where the specifications of the domestic version were reduced compared to
the overseas version.
The later the release date, the more the specifications had to be cut down.
However, on the other hand, Super Ginrai was somewhat extravagant for the
Japanese market.
- That surprised me.
My boss said, "Go ahead, do as you like," so I said, "Really?" Super Ginrai
was intended to be the flagship product as the leader of the hero side, so I
was given the green light to make it as deluxe as possible. However, the
subsequent God Bomber ended up in the opposite situation...
- Around the time of Ginrai you were proposing an
Ultra Magnus type robot where the trailer could be swapped out.
We were exploring multiple variations. The appeal of trailer robots lies in
their ability to swap out their containers. We brainstormed ways to
incorporate elements like combining and base play, unique to larger
products, and proposed these ideas.
- I think you like the idea of “playable bases”
Ono-san.
My approach to product development prioritises the gimmick. In the case of
Transformers, transformation itself isn't just a gimmick, so I've always
focused on enhancing play value beyond transformation for children. I
believe transformation alone isn't sufficient. Those around me often tease
that I tend to go overboard with it (laughs).
- Super Ginrai was the first attempt at remaking
Convoy, followed by another attempt with Return of Convoy.
The concept behind Star Convoy, overseen by Kunihiro (Takashi), revolves
around a motorised container. We brainstormed ways to integrate Micro
Transformers for a base play element. During this period, we conceived the
idea of the Micro Trailer for the domestic market, which served as a
foundational play element. It's a series centred on combining vehicles with
Micro Trailers, leading to creations like Sky Garry. Our vision for play,
gimmicks, and world-building was to combine Micro Trailers and Micro
Transformers for an immersive play experience.
- How did the development team evolve after the TV
series ended?
Those who were mainly working on Transformers products were moved to the
Brave team and a new team of developers were brought in for “Transformers
Zone”. During this period, Transformers took a hiatus in Japan and
development for overseas markets scaled down and shifted towards Europe. We
concentrated on maximising overseas sales, although we occasionally
introduced items from abroad, such as "G-2".
- When did you transition into marketing?
I transitioned out of development when I worked on "Brave Command Dagwon"
(1996). It was all about showcasing heroes, so we aimed to incorporate
heroic special effects elements by deciding to stage a show. Creating
costumes for this was quite challenging. We also took photographs for
packaging and I believe we even handled the voice acting for the toys. At
Takara, marketers wielded significant influence over the product. They
determined the concept, and developers had to align with those directives.
In the past, developers generated ideas and marketers refined them. Over
time, this dynamic shifted. Today, marketers and developers collaborate
closely on Transformers within the same department.
- It's common for developers to end up voicing the
toys themselves when there are scheduling conflicts.
I also provided the voice for Fire Convoy. For Beast Wars, we dubbed the
video for a children's survey ourselves. We knew we couldn’t convince the
company to greenlight the series without first conducting a children’s
survey. Conducting the research was crucial to persuade the company that it
was a worthwhile idea. Since there wasn't a professional dub available yet,
we took it upon ourselves and said, "Let's just do it!" Despite the initial
surprise of introducing organic-style robots, the concept proved strong.
Prior to Beast Wars, Takara's action figure line included the X-Men, and
even earlier, we successfully introduced the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"
to Japan, which sold exceptionally well. The Mutation series of transforming
figures performed especially strongly in children's surveys, prompting us to
focus on it as a key selling point, resulting in great sales.
- Did you name the series "Transformers: Car
Robots," Ono-san?
As the development leader, I was given free rein. "Car Robots" marked a
return to the series' origins. For this product, I aimed to emphasise real
cars.
- Speaking of real cars, shortly after that,
Masterpiece and Binaltech were launched.
It was fantastic to have a boss say to me, "You can do the Masterpiece for
the 20th Anniversary," and "I'll approach Subaru so we can ensure our
product looks exactly like the real thing, down to the livery." There, I was
able to instil the importance of acquiring licences properly and crafting
products with care. It was also significant that Hasbro began to appreciate
hobby products like Masterpiece. On the other hand, I found it amusing how
they decided to market the white Convoy as Ultra Magnus (laughs).
- So you left Transformers after that?
After working on "Dennou Boukenki Webdiver" and "Bakutou Sengen! Daigander”
(2001-2002), I transitioned to the new development department, which
oversees planning and development across the company. In this role, we focus
on research and development, pitching gimmicks and ideas to various business
divisions. Origawaru from "Kamiwaza Wanda" stemmed from that period,
originally conceived as an idea for "Microman". I remained in that
department throughout the early 2000s before joining the Transformers team
for the domestic market around the time of Masterpiece's New Jetron (around
2016).
- And then you joined the Masterpiece team. Wasn't
it a rare and valuable experience to work on the series for a second time?
I eagerly anticipated seeing the toys I originally created being remade by
others. When Lambor and Prowl were transformed into Masterpiece figures, the
team responsible came to show me, saying, "Ono, I made these!" I was
genuinely impressed, exclaiming, "They're fantastic!" and "They turned out
so well!" I was also delighted to have another opportunity to contribute
personally. With Starscream Ver. 2.0, I feel I managed to fold the tail fins
neatly, and I'm quite satisfied with the result.
- By the way, what are the differences in
development between then and now?
What we see nowadays differs greatly, from technology to pricing. Through
friendly competition, both figures and visuals continue to evolve, resulting
in significant progress accumulation, wouldn't you say? When we observe
existing high-end toys, we think, "Ah, it's acceptable to push the
boundaries like that," and it motivates us to aim even higher with our next
toy. Of course, cost is a major consideration in all of this. For children's
toys, prices and associated development costs are predetermined. There's
also a distinction for adult toys. Historically, toys were primarily
designed for children, necessitating compliance with safety standards. Sharp
objects were prohibited, and durability was a crucial factor in their
design. By targeting adults, the scope of toy design has expanded
significantly, which is a major factor. While the development process itself
may remain similar, the environment has evolved drastically. Prototype
makers have made tremendous advancements; previously done entirely by hand,
now prototypes can be checked in 3D directly from CAD data. This advancement
simplifies the creation of curved lines and allows for quick corrections,
which alone makes a significant difference.
- Indeed, it's possible to work entirely digitally
from development right up to just before production. I’ve heard that for
some products, there's no need to output physical prototypes.
It's really convenient and also shortens the schedule. In the past,
prototypes couldn't be outsourced, so I had to handcraft rough prototypes
myself. I used to cut and glue plastic sheets and other materials. I even
made samples by creating silicone moulds and pouring plastic resin into
them.
- Wooden and wax moulds are no longer used?
Craftsmen have been leaving the industry in large numbers, haven't they? In
the old days, only the head was made from a wooden or wax mould, as the face
of a figure is crucial. We used to hand over double-sized wooden and wax
moulds to the factory. However, over time, there were fewer and fewer wax
mould makers. As factories became more precise, such moulds became
unnecessary.
- Once again, MPG Raiden was a major project.
From the outset, I never thought it would happen, but during a team meeting,
one of the younger members asked, "Couldn't we do Raiden?" and I thought it
was a great idea. Since it was a Transformer only released in Japan, Hasbro
would not approach the idea. So I thought, let's go straight to Japanese
Rail. I went to JR East, JR West, and JR Central and managed to persuade
them. We convinced them by mentioning we were going to produce older train
models. They agreed, reasoning that as we have produced and sold them
before, it should be fine. However, this was different for the Train Robo
Doctor Yellow, which has the shape of the Tohoku Shinkansen but features the
blue lines of the Tokaido Shinkansen. Yamabuki (the Tohoku Shinkansen
version of Doctor Yellow) hadn't been released at the time, so at first,
they said they couldn't grant permission.
- That was a complicated matter.
In the Diaclone series at that time, the Tohoku and Tokaido lines were
separate. We explained our intent to produce two proper trains, which
eventually convinced them. The entire process took more than two years. It
started with a block prototype, which we refined and then combined. With the
supervision of the JR companies and Tomytec, we were able to create a
faithful representation. As MPG, our goal was to blend the appeal of both
the toy and the anime, rather than focusing solely on the anime.
- And then you started working on MPG Super Ginrai.
First, I wanted to ensure we retained the locking mechanism present in the
original. I believe that kind of play value is important. The overall scale
of Super Ginrai was designed with the assumption that Star Saber and God
Ginrai are the same height. For the transformation, the theme this time was
to keep it true to the original toy, maintaining the same mechanics as much
as possible. However, unlike the old toy, this version is fully articulated.
I had extensive discussions with Yuki Oshima to ensure it moved like an
action figure. I incorporated as many ratchets into the joints as I could,
and I was very particular about this detail. I also added a hatch at the
rear of the trailer. I think it's a fitting end to the Super Ginrai Project.
After all my developments, Super Ginrai may be the one I’m most attached to.
Now, we will see what happens with the Bomber Project.
- It seems like we are witnessing a generational
shift among designers now. What are your thoughts on this, Ono-san?
Among the younger generation, there are those who have started 3D
development right from the beginning. On the other hand, there are veterans
who still sketch on traditional graph paper with pencils. Personally, I'm
now shifting my approach towards relying more on prototype makers rather
than doing everything myself. However, what remains crucial is having a
sense of style. Without it, no matter how advanced the technology, the
result won't be appealing. Moreover, you have to genuinely "like" what
you're creating. Understanding and appreciating the coolness of robots is
essential. We currently have team members in the Transformers team who
possess these qualities, and we prioritise selecting individuals with such
passion and vision. Therefore, I believe Transformers will continue to
thrive.
- Looking back on your journey so far, how do you
feel?
I graduated from a technical college and have been with Takara since I was
20 years old, so it's been almost 45 years now. Reflecting on my journey, I
feel I've had a tremendous experience, particularly in terms of the freedom
I've been granted. From the moment I joined, I was trusted without any
pressure from my seniors. It was like, "You can do whatever you want." After
working on car robots, I expressed a desire to create a dinosaur, and then I
pushed for developing a triple changer. I always aim to venture into new
territories and create something that surprises me. I've been truly
fortunate to have had a boss who supported and encouraged me to pursue these
ideas.
- It's remarkable to have been able to continue in
the same role for so long.
The Transformers team is quite special; we don't see a high turnover of
staff. There are team members who have been consistently involved in
Transformers for a long time. I believe this continuity is partly due to our
effective collaboration with Hasbro and our ability to secure sales.
Personally, I find joy in my work as well. For me, working here is about
having fun and enjoying what I do. I've truly cherished my career and feel
very fulfilled by it.
A compilation of Kojin Ono’s Transformers.
Since Sunstreaker (Countach LP500S Super Tuning), the original Car Robot and
ancestor of the Cybertrons, Ono has been involved in numerous Transformers
projects. In recent years, while focusing on Masterpiece development, he has
ventured into creating transforming toys that break new ground. Examples
include the "G-SHOCK × TRANSFORMERS Master Optimus Prime Resonant Mode,"
which transforms with wrist watch still connected, and the
"Canon/TRANSFORMERS Optimus Prime R5," featuring a camera-like gimmick with
a removable lens. The latest addition to the regular line is the Japanese
exclusive "Awakened Optimus Primal," a collaboration with Hiroya Onishi,
introduced in the previous issue of Transformers Generations 2023. This
figure faithfully reproduces its appearance from the source materials while
incorporating extensive play value, including connections with Awakened
weapons and various other weapon gimmicks. It stands as a masterpiece that
seamlessly blends a toy-like playfulness with a realistic appearance.
■ Kojin Ono
Born on 11th May 1959, in Tokyo, he joined Takara (now Takara Tomy) in 1980,
initially working on the development of Diaclone and Microman. His first
projects included the Walk Insector for Diaclone and Acro Satan for
Microman. Notably, he was responsible for creating the first car robot, the
Countach LP500S Super Tuning. Over the years, he has been at the forefront
of developing numerous transforming toys, including those in the
Transformers and Brave Series. He also led the marketing for Brave Commander
Dagwon and, after leaving the Transformers team, developed new toys like
Kamiwaza Wanda in the Origwaru series.
In recent years, his work has extended to Masterpiece and MPG lines, as well
as hobby items such as collaborations with Casio G-SHOCK and Canon. He
frequently revisits and remakes products he originally worked on in the
1980s. In 2010, he was inducted into the Hall of Fame for his significant
contributions to the Transformers franchise. His involvement spans from the
inception of Transformers to the present day, solidifying his reputation as
a Hall of Fame inductee.
■
His notable Transformers creations include Sunstreaker, Ironhide, Meister,
Hound, Inferno, Streak, Rije, Prowl, Lambor, Skids, Trailbreaker, the
Dinobots, Camshaft, Overdrive, Downshift, Metroflex, the Airbots, Fortress
Maximus, the Trainbots, Metalhawk, Super Ginrai, Galaxy Shuttle, Landcross,
Jackshot, Protoform Optimus Prime, Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp,
Blitzwing, Astrotrain, Octone, Devastator, Galvatron, Apeface, Darkwing,
Deathsaurus, Dinoking, Crossformer, Metro Titan, Protoform Starscream,
Master Optimus Prime, Master Nemesis Prime, Canon/Transformers, Ultimate
Optimus Prime, Masterpiece (MP-52 and later), MPG, and many more. His latest
endeavour is the God Ginrai Project, part of the 40th-anniversary
celebration.
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